SPIVAK: There are a great many Harvard alumni who feel that the Corporation and you have yielded to the coercion of the strikers by granting most of the important demands they made by using force.

Can you tell us what significant demands the strikers made that have been turned down?

PUSEY: Well I don't know which ones you could say have been granted.

The main one, I suppose, or a group of them on the ROTC issue--that issue was discussed pretty widely by faculty and students last November, and then there were interruptions. But finally a faculty vote was taken as to what was a desirable course of action, and we have been following that course of action ever since.

PUSEY: The SDS demand was that ROTC should just be thrown out, right now, this instant. And that, of course, we've not done. We're trying and trying to find out how this can be worked out in following the direction the faculty gave, that if it stays it has to be at the level of an exeracurricular activity.

SPIVAK: Black student demands?

PUSEY: The black student thing is a very special matter.

Again, there had been a faculty committee and people working on that problem for almost a year. It had come up with recommendations--a program as expressed in the so-called Rosovsky report.

The faculty had adopted this in February. Then in the weeks--I think the days, almost the hours--before this disruption occurred on April 9, there was dissatisfaction expressed with that by the blacks.

And that matter came back for action by the faculty in the period of all this excitement.

Now they did vote in regard to this--thing that were not in the original report. And I think the faculty felt there were reasons for considering this a very special case.

The action taken here does point to another thing that is part of the general background that everybody ought to have in mind.

Student dissatisfaction--among the blacks and whites--turns in great measure on the rate or pace at which change is effected or not effected.

I think they were very impatient with the slowness with which this program for the black students was moving, and insisted on quicker action.

I do think there is no question that it has been speeded up--and this probably contrary to the earlier intention of the faculty.

It presents problems, Whether or not these can be worked out in the next two or three years remains to be seen. But there is no question that pressure did lead to a tremendous acceleration on this point.

JOHNSON: Yes, I'd like to go back to the question which seems central. That is the use of force.

You were faced with the decision to bring to police, for instance.

This has been the case at Harvard, at Columbia, back at Chicago during the convention--where police come in and then use perhaps unnecessary force, club and kick, take off their badges and so forth.