Dr. M.: Regardless of what you do there will be change in South Africa. You must decide which side you want to be on.

Us: In other words, business is part of the enemy.

Dr. M.: The corporations here talk of social responsibility etc... But who benefits from the cheap labor? Why don't they pay blacks the same as whites? I work in a hospital and I see the black nurses that have worked there for forty years and know an operating room better than I do. I've seen white graduates of nursing school come in to the hospital and fire these black nurses. Why? Because they will not tolerate a black knowing more than they do. Business is the same, we can never go beyond a certain stage, it would violate the system.

Us: What of the various codes of corporate conduct? The Sullivan Principles, for example?

Dr. M.: Rubbish. The codes say equal pay for equal work, but there is no equal work! As soon as a black works in a certain job they give it a different title. Blacks and whites can be doing the same exact thing but the job titles will be different.

Us: What is the future of South Africa?

Dr. M.: The future is beautiful, we will have beautiful country soon.

K: I don't know. We have a long struggle ahead.

This is the second of two interviews. Gerald J. Sanders and Zan Brookshire are third year students at the University of Texas Law School, and visited South Africa this summer.