Kistiakowsky: Kennedy was worse than Eisenhower. He really was not that interested...He probably knew from the military that the Limited Test Ban Treaty would not interfere with the development of nuclear warheads. And it didn't. But that part was never explained to the public, and not even to characters like me who were in the circle of the White House.

Tang: Did you find that the military personnel making most of the decisions really knew about the science behind the weapons they were working with?

Kistiakowsky: A few did, others didn't. There are some very well educated military people with Ph.D.s in physics and so on. But they are a minority.

Tang: Do you think these decision makers are motivated by a desire to build arms for their own personal interests, to gain power for the military, or for the interest of national security?

Kistiakowsky: Officially it is to insure the security of this nation. How you interpret it is your own business...It's complex...Some of them really see it in that noble.spirit. Other, and this is very common, see the development of some particular weapon as a new generation of missiles which will serve to advance their careers. As the project goes, because it's successful, the management becomes more important in the Pentagon. The top man gets promoted from colonel to general...

Tang: Tell me about your decision to become involved in arms control outside of the government. Was there a specific reason or was it a gradual decision?

Kistiakowsky: I resigned from all my connections with the military and the Pentagon and such in '67 and early '68. I gave, from then on, what time I had to arms control...I was still teaching a number of research students until '71, but after that pretty much on a full-time basis. I was invited to join the Council for a Livable World eight year ago. I agreed, and then in 1977 I became the chairman of the board of directors.