'Clean-Up Campaign'

One of Castela Branco's main ideas in taking over the government was to "clean up" Brazilian politics. To what extent do you think he has cleaned up politics in Brazil?

He failed also in this area because actually he did not renovate the methods and the procedures of our traditional oligarchs' politics. For instance, he did create, by decree, two parties. One is supposed to be the government party and the other is supposed to be the opposition.

And just recently, he felt compelled to sign a decree extending the terms of the leaders of the opposition party. The opposition party as to have an internal election, but the president. Castelo Branco, decided that the present leaders should continue to lead the opposition party for another six months, I think, So when a single opposition party is allowed and when that opposition party has its leaders appointed by the president, you can imaging what kind of opposition they can make.

Political Alliance

Do you see any alliance between or among the present political candidates in Brazil for the purpose of presenting a united front and thus forcing the military regime to step down?"

I tried and was successful in my understanding with former president Kubitschek. We were, the two of us, rivals, competitors in the election that did not take place [last year]. I was leader of the opposition to his government. I was put in exile when he came up to power, not by him but by the generals that put him in power after his election. So recently I got to Lisbon where he is living, and I shook his hand. We printed a manifesto saying that it was about time we forgot all the troubles and the quarrels of the past and faced the future in order to get some reforms made and a new political democratic force in a broad sense. Not a united front in the sense of an opportunistic and temporary thing, but a deep-rooted movement that can become in the near future a strong popular party--progressive--let's say center minded and with a few leftist actions in the sense of an opening towards progressivism.

Is that what you are presently working on?

Yes. Now from here I am going to Lisbon again to go ahead and start elaborating this program and trying to organize a party in that line with Kubitschek and others.

Will you go back to Brazil and organize such a party?

Yes, I believe so. It is very difficult because the rules that Castelo Branco applied practically don't leave a place for such party. There is one party in government and one party in the opposition. But I believe many who are in government and many who are in the opposition will get together with us and try to organize not a third force, but an authentic independent force.

POpular Force

By an authentic popular force do you mean primarily the middle classes or some other social group?

I believe the middle class will combine with a growing workers force which is yet inarticulate because our trade unions movement, was never free. They were under the paternal authority of the state. They were the property of a single party that controlled unions through the minister of labor.

So now we have to develop a way to let the workers speak freely in a trade union movement, democratically oriented, combining it with the students' movement, and opening the way for a unity between the workers' class, the middle class, certain segments-of progressive and active industrial class. There is a nation a bourgeosie that wants to industralize, to make money, profits. But this is a positive force. So when some people make a wholesale condemnation of the present order, I think they make a mistake.