While he had no idea of how many votes he himself would get in the present election, Norman Thomas predicted a majority for Roosevelt in an exclusive interview last night, and said Phil Murray will almost certainly be the next president of the C I O.

The recent bolt of John L. Lewis from the New Deal will result in the elevation of the present number two man in the C I O even if Willkie elected, Thomas believes. Labor may benefit, he said, as "Murray is in many ways a better man than Lewis, though lacking his personal influence."

Hillman May Rule

If the United States enters the war Sidney Hillman will wield the power, according to the Socialist candidate, which "would be a major catastrophe, for Hillman is as complete a Machiavelli as ever walked the earth." Roosevelt if elected, may very well carry labor along with him into a dictatorship. it was forecast, and in this Hillman was described as probably a potent helper.

The Socialist candidates are on 29 of the state ballots, Thomas revealed, having been kept off many slates "by very high-handed methods." A petition with 50 names signed to it for each county is necessary to be put on the ballot.

As an example of "what we are up against" Thomas cited Ohio, where with 30,000 names on petitions the Socialists are not eligible for candidacy because of a shortage in one county, according to party records.

The party will continue to fight for its objectives after the war is over, the candidate stated. He also promised protection of the existence and rights of minor parties, opposition to the draft and involvement in the war, greater socialization in American industry and economy.

"They put the draft over beautifully and painlessly," he observed, "but now the novacaine is wearing off and opposition is developing. It is probable that after the election the government will crack down on this and all other opposition or criticism."